Re: We know what you need, and we'll push it down your throat.

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From: Yossi Kreinin
Subject: Re: We know what you need, and we'll push it down your throat.
Date: 16:32 on 29 Dec 2006
Aaron J. Grier wrote:
> 
> I'm dissing on the C# environment, and the fact that microsoft chose to
> reinvent the IDE wheel rather than build it on something prexisting.

Instead of protecting their IDE, which I don't want to do, I'll express my hate 
to the pre-existing things one could base IDEs on - say, XEmacs (the 
environmental green icon flashing each time emacs lisp looks for it's waste, the 
inability to /quietly/, /normally/ copy and paste, and a zillion such things in 
the default setting threw me straight into the paws of vim after 2 years of 
suffering) and Eclipse (which is so called since it blocks whatever you normally 
observe on your machine, such as CPU, memory, pixels, and other things you may 
be used to having in a computer).

> 
> it's a testament to microsoft's marketing power that programmers are
> actually willing to put up with completely tossing visual studio 6 with
> something much less stable and much more immature.  maybe this has
> changed with visual studio 2005, but if I were being pushed to, say,
> replace my editor every couple years, that would really put a dent in my
> productivity.

Visual Studio 6 supported development using the insane combination of C++ and 
MFC. It surely was not fun, but you could do it, and your condition would be 
categorized as "stable" in medical terms. With the advent of C#, they decided 
they don't like supporting this shit of theirs, but they didn't explicitly say 
so, counting on their developers to figure it out themselves. The ones who 
refuse to realize this are likely to end up desperately wounded by the thousands 
of tiny pieces of glass and excrements spread throughout what's supposed to be 
the new MFC on top of the new C++ compiler.

If someone working on Windows wants to start a new project, C# is probably not a 
bad idea, since they like supporting it (today). If that someone is stuck with 
COM, MFC and that kind of thing, I'd suggest considering, in this order:

* if you don't want to end up at this point again, rewrite everything in 
something portable which won't change under your feet too fast (Qt for GUI, etc.)
* if using a Microsoft set of tools is somehow better (more relevant people know 
it, for example), rewrite everything in C#/.NET which will work in the near future
* if you can't rewrite it, try to keep using the old tools like VC++ 6
* if they break into little pieces, try shooting yourself

By the way, the editing parts of the IDE are pretty compatible with the old 
version. Most poison is stuffed into the compilers, the libraries, the 
languages, the OS, the component models, and their interoperability.

> 
> wrestling with development tools unnecessarily is a waste of development
> time.  that is a tautology but I'm amazed how much time many programmers
> (myself included) spend rationalizing toolchain upgrades.

Sure. Toolchain upgrades are hateful. They should be done if there are really 
big benefits and really few choice (what you use is really old and lots of 
things you want to use won't work unless you upgrade and the old tools by 
themselves won't work in today's environment).

On the other hand, if you start a (really) new project, you can pick the tools 
you like and can afford, and new ones may (or may not) be a good choice.

I personally hate changes. When someone showed me 10 basic ways needed to stay 
alive with vim, I ditched emacs and have been using vim happily ever after. The 
guy who tempted me into trying the novice-hostile program, on the other hand, 
has changed a dozen of environments, because he likes change. I'd say he's more 
productive because of that.
There's stuff above here

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